: Re: [rescue] God bless America

[BSD Bob the old greybeard BSD freak]

> BSD Bob the old greybeard BSD freak <bobkeys at weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> =
> wrote:
> 
> >You must treat them with sufficient horror
> >that you get their attention, and scare them.  If you fail to do that,
> >they have won.....

I wrote the above and I stand by it.....

> strike fear in the hearts of whom ??

Those responsible for the terrorism in question, and those who actively
supported or took part in said terrorism.

As a secondary effect, it would serve as a lesson to those that would
consider future terrorism, if sufficiently horrible to them.  That
seems to be all that they understand.

> who deliberately flew the plane =
> into WTC ?? or in Pentagon ?? knowing fully that they wont live to see =
> what they have done !!

They are already dead.  Your example makes little sense.

> You (me being not an American) surely need to =
> reply in kind !! as I would have endorsed my government to do if my =
> country would have been attacked !! but in the long term you must think =
> that what was the cause of this hatred ?? it was definately a failure of =
> your foreign policy !! why does external terrorist groups alwayz strike =
> USA ?? why not Japan ?? why not some place in Europe ?? England? France? =
> Germany?=20

In the long term you have to make them think of the consequences BEFORE
they act.

You speak of terrorist groups striking the USA and not elsewhere.
Mr. Usman, you have not read history very well or you would know that
all of those places around the world have had the misfortune of
terrorism in their lands.

> Lets talk about Osama Bin Laden. Who gave him weapons and training just =
> 10/15 years ago ?? and now considers Threat No. 1 to US ?? it was =
> America who herself used this man against Soviets and then left him !! =
> Ever thought about the will and the faith of the man who irrespective of =
> massive wealth sits in caves, sleeps on floor ...... had his both =
> kidneys failed ..... lives on dialysis !! well, Best of Luck to you guys =
> !! but I dont think that scaring them would is possible !! After all you =
> sent some 70 cruise missles into Bin Laden's camp just a few years back =
> !!=20

Yes, that was poor action on our part.  We should have finished the job,
properly, rather than slap on the hand.

If Mr. bin Laden was such a gentleman of the world, he would not resort
to terrorist activities, but seek known and proven methods of change.
He seems incapable of doing that.

I can sympathize with the cause of freeing Afghanistan from Russian
invasion.  But, I cannot sympathize with a dog biting the hand that
has fed it.  If the dog does that, it should be put down.  The
Russians have long since left Afghanistan, and Mr. bin Laden should
seek to rebuild his country, if that is now his country, rather than
bite the USA.  If he chooses to bite the USA, e.g., has any responsibility
for the aforementioned terrorism, then, as the dog would be put down,
so should he.  If any country supported him in this terrorism, that
country should also be put down, by whatever means.  If that is your
country, Mr. Usman, it will be put down.  If that is the case, you
had better be very scared.  If that is not the case, you have no cause
to be scared.

> You guys definately need to have a second look on your foreign policy !! =
> definately thats the root cause !! ever thought about what a Palestinian =
> thinks about you guys when an American made missile hits his 8 year old =
> boy ??

Ever think about the Russian missle fired by the Palestinian terrorists,
that kills the Jewish child?

Your analogy is meaningless, Mr. Usman.  It does not matter who made
the devices, but it does surely matter who used them, and HOW they
were used.

Foreign policy does not have great bearing who winds up using something
and how that is used, but, it can have some effect.

> I dont think he would take your condolences seriously if you keep =
> on supplying weapons to Israel !! Or about Iraqi's who get bombarded by =
> USAF almost everyday ?? The B-52 sorties that took place on Baghdad =
> civilian population during Gulf War ?? ....... why didn't you guys just =
> gave the arms to Saudis and Kuwaits to wage a war against Iraq ?? Why =
> did you get yourself dirty in that War between arabs ?? ok ..... if you =
> had no other choice then why didnt you guys simply leave Gulf =
> immediately after Desert Storm ??

I have no condolences for terrorists, whatsoever.

We supply weapons to Israel, to a great extent because you Arabs have
sworn, historically, to eliminate Israel.  That is unacceptable in the
world community.  Thus, we have to even up the playing field as we can.
If that means weapons of defence to Israel, so be it.  I would like you
to plot a chart with two columns of data.  First, the number of times
Israel has first attacked an Arab state or region.  Second, the number
of first times an Arab state or organization or region has attacked Israel.
I think you would see a very interesting pattern, there, Mr Usman, and
it would give you some insight as to why the world community, or the USA
in particular acts as it does.

> lets talk about Pakistan !! they had a =
> joint defence accord but what happened in the war of 1965 between India =
> and Pakistan. US simply slaped sanctions on both the countries. Ever =
> thought about why this nation, a very great and a very moderate one, =
> which was considered as the "Frontline State against Socialism" is being =
> isolated by USA when she need your country's support !! Now, your =
> secretary of state is saying about Pakistan we have some "reservations" =
> about Nuclear weapons in the hands of a nation which remained US's most =
> allied nation for forty years !! and considers India to be a responsible =
> state even though India was the only country in UN at the time of =
> Soviet-Afghan war which always supported an unlawful invasion by the =
> Soviet's which ended up in 2 million Afghan civilians death !! FOR GOD'S =
> SAKE 2 MILLION CIVILIANS !!!! =20

You forget, Mr. Usman, that Pakistan has had significant ties with Mr.
bin Laden.  As some of our officials have said, to paraphrase, that
clouds the issue of the sincerity of Pakistan.  It is a matter of trust.
Pakistan has to make clear its sincerity of being against terrorism.
As I understand it, over the past few days, it has been trying to do that.

If we are considering the 2 million Afghan lives lost, do not forget the
6 million Jews, the 10 million or so Chinese, or the 20 million or so
Russians lost in WWII.  All of those lives are important in the world
community, historically, lest history repeat itself.

> You are a very responsible nation. But your real test is now !! will you =
> be provoked by this attack to go berzerk, attacking anyone in the way !! =
> attacking anyone who have a difference of opinion ?? or show some =
> responsibility to try to find out the root cause of this event !! if you =
> take the former path ...... which is easy you will end up doing the same =
> as those cold-blooded murderers did to you !!=20

We are trying to be as responsible a nation of the world as we can,
Mr. Usman.  We are not perfect.  But, history has suggested that we
are one of the more responsible nations of the world.  As to the test,
we are not historically known to go berserk.  The Berserkers, i.e., the
Norwegian Vikings of old, from whence the word is derived, died out as
an effective fighting force some thousand years ago.

But, we are, Mr. Usman, not a nation to be trifled with.  We will find out
who is responsible, what if any nations or other entities are responsible,
and we will strike back with a vengeance.  It will not be a few missiles
into a camp.  It will be of much more measure than that.  IF, Mr. Usman,
your country was in any way responsible for the aforementioned terrorism,
you should be scared.  IF, Mr. Usman, you were associated with any type
of organization that participated in the afforementioned terrorism or
might contemplate any future such acts, you should be very scared.
Our tolerance of these acts has reached its limit.  It is now time
for serious action.  We will, I would hope, take full assurance that
against whomever we decide to take such action, they have reasonably
and accurately been shown to be responsible.  That is, in the least,
better assurance than the terrorists gave our citizens.  If it turns
out to be bin Laden, so be it.  If Afghanistan is responsible, too,
so be it.  The must collectively bear the responsibility and the
punishment.  If they should not be the responsible parties, so be it.
Whomever is, will bear the burden and will bear the punishment.

> Regards,
> Usman (A citizen of this World)
> 
> Post Scriptum: These are only my views and do not represent any group, =
> organization, cult, ethnic group or Governament. BUT I STRONGLY OPPOSE =
> THE BRUTAL ATTACK ON YOUR CIVILIANS AND I THINK THOSE RESPONSIBLE SHOULD =
> BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE. ISLAM DOES NOT ALLOW ITS FOLLOWERS TO ATTACK =
> CIVILIANS UNDER ANY, I REPEAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. ITS ALWAYS A =
> MINORITY WHICH BRINGS A BAD NAME TO MAJORITY. THE ATTACK CAN NOT BE =
> CLAIMED AS JIHAD (HOLY WAR) BUT INFACT IS AN ACT OF TERRORISM BY EVIL =
> PEOPLE TO SATISFY THEIR BARBARIC NEEDS. ISLAM  STANDS FOR PEACE AND =
> HUMANITY AND LOVE AND CO-EXISTENCE AND DOES NOT, AND I REPEAT DOES NOT =
> REPRESENT OR JUSTIFY ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS AT ANY COST.=20

I respect the above, entirely.  I would suggest that those individuals
and organizations of Islamic religion, which do seek to be terrorists,
should perhaps re-read or re-learn the teachings of the Koran.  It would
seem that they have lost the meaning and practice of the scriptural
teachings, in their application of terrorism.  The Koran teaches love
and tolerance, amongst many things, and the terrorists seem to have long
since forgotten that in their jihad.

Bob Keys

(A citizen of the United States of America, and of the World Community)

I bear no grudge against those of the Islamic faith or of the Arab
community.  I do bear great disdain for those that do or would do
such terrorist acts, and those that would harbor and support them,
in any way.

Out of respect to those who lost their lives in this tragedy, I will
refrain from any further comments.