[SunRescue] Aids (again, sorry)

[Ken Hansen]

Notes:

No one said that *anyone* suffering with AIDS can not get treated, we are saying the Mfgs. deserver to not hove their work stolen from them. They will do what they can, given their constraints. (see previous note about numerous comapines giving discounted AIDS treatments to Africa) Tim, until you have invested $200 Million in something to give it away, it is all just theory.

People do not get turned away from american hospitals if they don't have insurance. Their treatment is paid for by everyone that does have insurance and visits the hospital. Where ther eis a difference is in the quality of the delivery. If you can pay the hospital, you can see the dictor right away, if you can't you will (most likely) wait until all the paying customers that have similar or more serious problems are served. No one checks for credit cards or insurance cards at a car crash. But, walk in to a doctors office, and they will. If it is an emergency and you can't pay, you go to the most expensive form of health care in america, the emergency room, and wait. I have never seen a hospital roll a sick patient out on a gurney becuase they had no insurance.

No one is blaming the Ugandian for anything. Never did, never will - not relevent.

An argument could be made that we are *punishing* the Ugandian, but that is not the case either.

AFAIK, AIDS treatments do not *cure* AIDS, they simply manage the development of a fatal disease - prolong and improve the quality of life for the patient, not cure. To deny treatment to a patient is *not* the same as killing them - they are going to die, the question is when... (As are we all, according to Brother Theodore, "Birth is the leading cause of death.")

No one is telling the Ugandians "They will never be able to afford" treatment - the simple reality is they can not. AIDS treatments are developed by for-profit companies, responsible to their shareholders to provide a return on their investment in the company. Now, if all (or maybe just a majority) of the shareholders thought that Pfizer should surrender it's patent on Viaga to improve the sex life of all "ED" sufferers, they would - but that isn't going to happen (IMHO). Same for AIDS treatments. Instead of buying red ribbons and making quilts, buy shares in the drug comapnies and force them out of business by voting to give away their drugs to everyone.

Of course, that will mean no new treatments will be developed, for things like Breast Cancer, Colon Cancer, and almost any other disease - better hope you don't get anything serious...

Ken

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:07:32 -0400
From: Tim Harrison <harrison at timharrison.com>
Organization: Network Level
To: rescue at sunhelp.org
Subject: Re: [SunRescue] OT: CA: It's Our Turn
Reply-To: rescue at sunhelp.org

Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:

> I don't believe that YOUR need justifies stealing from ME, when you have no
> rightful claim on my work.

[snip]

> What *ACTUALLY* happens is that Americans end up paying the highest prices
> in the world for some drugs, because the USA is one of the few places that
> respects intellectual property.
> 
> Other countries, including Canada, make the drug companies sell at a lower
> price than the market will bear, or don't even recognize copyright or
> patents to begin with.
> 
> So poor Ugandans get their AIDS drugs, but poor Americans don't.  How
> exactly is this compassionate?!?

I'm sorry, I can't help myself.  I have to make a comment.  I'm hoping
it's going to be the only one, as I tend to get all wrapped up in stuff
like this.  So, here goes...

I think intellectual property is a shitty excuse for deciding that
hundreds of thousands of people should die.  Fsck intellectual
property.  If I had something that could increase the quality of life,
or, indeed, cure an illness, I'm bloody certain that I wouldn't quibble
about the amount I wanted to charge for it.  Whether the dying person
was Ugandan, American, or martian... if they needed something that I
had, then I'd damned well give it to them.

"Poor" Americans.  Poor Americans my ass.  As a Canadian, I'm quite used
to socialized medicare.  If something happens to me, and I don't have
coverage, I'm going to get treatment anyway.  The government pays for a
lot of things, including part of our drugs.  I think this is a wonderful
thing.  In case of emergency, I don't get turned away because I don't
have a cheque on me.

When I first moved to the US, I found it really hard to swallow the fact
that I was being asked for money when I went to the doctor's office for
a sore throat, or when my wife was ill, I had to give them my credit
card.  The people you should be blaming for the cost of medical care are
the insurance companies, not a Ugandian who doesn't have enough money to
feed a family properly.

The "praise America, damn the rest" attitude that I've run across in
some (not all, mind you -- most of my closest friends I met once I moved
down here) makes me ill and angry.  Pride in your country can be a good
thing.  Pride in your country, at the expense of others is not.  Don't
forget:  what you consider "anti American" is considered nationalistic
pride in another nation.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a personal attack, Patrick.  It's not
meant to be that way.  I just get frustrated when people say that the
Americans get the short end of the stick.  Try being one of the
unfortunate souls in Uganda with AIDS, trying to get medicine for you or
your family, and having someone say "I'm sorry, you'll never be able to
afford it because the American drug companies and insurance companies
say that it's 30 times more expensive than it should be."

</rant>

BTW, what are your thoughts on the Netra X1 over the AC200?  I'm trying
to decide which to buy for our shared hosting platform.  I figure, the
cost savings on the X1 would be nice, but the AC200 looks a bit more
powerful, and not IDE based.