[geeks] Education [was: [rescue] Mainframe on eBay]

[wa2egp at att.net]

> I grew up in the real world too, thanks.  You are making an invalid
> assumption about my background, given that I am one of two people
> in my rather large family that have a college education.
> 
> The thing you are advocating is teaching to the tools, and my opinon,
> born out by experience (both by example and by trying to hire) is that
> this is the underlying problem.
> 
> Again, university is not trade school.  My argument was not that
> English degrees were suitable substitutes for Engineering degrees.
> My argument was that University is to be a broad foundation (in what-
> ever major) so a person can come out of school and make their way
> in the world working in that field.
> 
> As an example, why do architecture degrees still teach drafting on paper?
> Why don't they go directly to Autocad, TurboCad, etc?  No one actually
> uses manual drafting anymore in the "real world".  They do so because
> there are things architects need to know how to do themselves--and
> computer programs allow the students to "cheat" on the basics.
> 
> Likewise, how long ago was it that the "spreadsheet" du jour was Lotus
> 1-2-3?  You know back when Access wasn't even thought of, and the
> PC db program was DBase III (or IV if you were a masochist).  Or,
> getting back to the computers (and Jonathan's gripe)--what's the latest
> language they are peddling--Java?  Before that it was C, before that it
> was Fortran or COBOL.
> 
> My point is that these things are TOOLS.  TOOLS CHANGE.  Students
> who are not taught to understand the theoretical underpinnings, to solve
> problems, to apply critical thinking processes to problems, to be creative,
> and to adapt, will be left in the dust.  Pure and simple.  In the example
> of CS and/or Computer Engineering, giving them the impression that
> Java is "The One" is just not a reasonable thing given history.
> 
> Jobs change, careers change, tools change.  Technology is a moving
> target.  Students need to be taught to be flexible and adaptable.  Training
> them to work in (biology | computers | engineering | medicine) as if they
> were trades[0] is not only doing a disservice to the student, but also a
> disservice to public tax dollars, and to society as a whole.  Things are
> changing faster than ever, and having people who only understand today's
> tools is not a Good Thing, IMO.
> 
> =Nadine=
> 
> [0] By "trade" I mean, a person who understands one type of system end-
> to-end (HVAC, electricity, etc), can install and service it based on
> instructions
> given to them, but doesn't have the theory to invent/create/analyze these
> systems for other applications, etc.  Given enough experience and interest,
> they might be able to make recommendations, but that would not be typical.

Well put.  

     I'd like to copy your post and hand it to my principal.  His
attitude is if you're not using the latest technology in the classroom, 
you're not teaching.  I teach my high school physics students to graph 
by hand.  If they want to graph the results of a lab, they can use Excel 
or anything else including a pencil and graph paper.  Most choose the 
latter.  I also use mechanical balances rather than the digital ones.
Why?  So they can see how balances work,  see what people used to use 
and (heaven forbid) if they go to a college that doesn't have digital 
balances, they won't be lost.  
     I was talking to my garage mechanic today.  He is a former
student and has an EE and business administration degrees.  (He'd
rather run a garage in case anyone is wondering.)  He was talking
about these mechanics who come from trade schools that can't take off
a wheel or who replace a strut and put the springs in upside-down or
who can't do the most simple repair jobs, but they have a piece of
paper that says they are qualified.  Even trade schools are not
immune.  
     Maybe we need to teach a good dose of history.  Computers
today (for example) are really not that impressive when you see
what people did with the machines of a couple of decades ago.
Maybe then the idea that "tools change", as you so well put it,
will hit home.

Bob

BTW, I'm also the second in my family to get a college degree.
My father barely got out of reform school (learning disabilities)
and he started and ran an electronics business which paid for 
my college education.