[rescue] FA: PDP11 Qbus cards CPU and Memory

[Dave McGuire]

  (*sigh* He had to go and do it, didn't he.  He can't REALLY be this
arrogant.  This must be a troll.  But no matter.)

On March 25, Greg A. Woods wrote:
> >   Umm, no.  SOME PDP11s have Unibus.  Some have Q-bus.
> 
> You miss the point entirely Dave.  Only "Micro"PDPs had a Q-bus.  Except
> the orininal PDP-11/03 (which I forgot about in my first post) and then
> the much later PDP-11/23-PLUS (and its baby brother the PDP-11/23-S).

  Oh yes, I forgot...you see "the point", indeed, "far deeper" than any
of us mere mortals.  Please forgive me.

  Now that we've done away with the pleasantries, let me correct your
errors.

  The PDP-11/83 and /93, as well as the straight (non-PLUS) /23 weren't
called "MicroPDP".  Indeed, the only people who ever called a Qbus
PDP11 a "MicroPDP-11" were the marketroids.  The BA23- and
BA123-housed systems said "MicroPDP" on the badge but that was about
it.  It was a marketing term, nothing more...and it wasn't even
applied to all systems of the same type.  There are plenty of
BA23-based systems, for example, that simply say "PDP-11/73" on the
badge.

> There have to exceptions to all these marketing things....  Other than
> those though there are no PDP-11's I know of with a Q-bus.  From a
> marketing perspective that's the defining difference between a PDP-11
> and the LSI-11's and later MicroPDP-11's.  Four years of DECdirect
> catalogues and related system documentation on my shelves have
> consistently used these terms to separately identify the Q-bus 11's from
> the UNIBUS 11's all the way through the 1980's.

  You are easily the most argumentative, adversarial, and self-centered
individual I have ever met.  I've got the same catalogs Greg, likely
more of them.  Literature from their marketing department does not
define what these machines are called.  Read on, and learn.

> Indeed the original designation of the Q-bus was "LSI-11 bus"!

  Didn't I say that in my last email?  Yes, I did.  However, it's
important to understand that a particular PDP-11 being a Qbus machine
does not make it an "LSI-11" instead of a "PDP-11".

> There's also another sure designation of Q-bus vs. UNIBUS for the
> post-1980's machines, and that is of course that all 11/x3 machines are
> the former and 11/x4 machines are the latter.

  This is true, but only for the later machines as you stated.  So, in
this point, you are correct.  Don't let that lull you into a false
sense of competence, though...you still have absolutely no idea what
you're talking about.  Read on.

> >   Umm, no.  An LSI-11 based system is a PDP11.  To my knowledge, there
> > are no PDP11 systems, regardless of bus, that say "LSI-11" on the
> > badge.
> 
> Oh, come on Dave.  If you don't have one then surely you would have
> checked google before making such a reply!
> 
> I'm pretty sure I still have the majority of parts of an LSI-11/03
> system somewhere.  The original front panel really did say "LSI-11".

  Oh, come on Greg.  I've got one sitting in storage, a first-run 11/03.
It doesn't say "LSI" on the front.  Indeed, I have three other
PDP-11/03 systems, and NONE of them say "LSI-11" on the front.
Neither do my PDP-11/23 systems, nor does the PDP-11/23 PLUS.
"LSI-11" is a processor, not a system.  Some PDP-11 systems are built
around LSI-11 processors.

> There was an original LSI-11 (a chip set, a board, and a system), then
> the LSI-11/2, the LSI-11/03, the LSI-11/23, and then finally the
> MicroPDP-11/23 and on.  I've heard rumours there was an LSI-11/73, but I
> don't know if that was an official name of a system, or just the name
> for the an 11/70 "on a chip", aka the J-11.

  *bzzzt* LSI-11<whatever> was never the name of ANY complete
system...only processor boards and chipsets.  Further, a PDP-11/03
system contains one of two processors...the LSI-11 (M7264) or the
LSI-11/2 (M7270).  There is no processor called "LSI-11/03".  Even
further, all PDP-11/23 systems...be they PDP-11/23, PDP-11/23 PLUS, or
MicroPDP-11/23...are based on one of two possible processor modules,
the 11/23 (M8186 or the rarer M8185) or the 11/23 PLUS (M8189).  The
straight 11/23 was originally a processor with 18-bit addressing but
later boards (indeed, most of the ones that saw the light of day) had
full 22-bit addressing, while the M8189 boards were the basis for the
PLUS- and MicroPDP-branded versions...all of which are properly
referred to as LSI-11/23.  All PDP-11/73 systems (and several others,
like the 11/53) are similarly based on one of several KDJ11 boards,
which are collectively referred to as "LSI-11/73" processors...but the
complete system is a "PDP-11/73" or a "MicroPDP-11/73" (if you're into
the marketing names).

  Even FURTHER...The DECserver-500 terminal server is based on an
LSI-11/73 processor, an 11/53 CPU board with different boot ROMs.
This does NOT make it an "LSI-11/73" system...it's still a
DECserver-500.

  (Free advice: Check your information before making blanket
statements...you'll spare yourself that "gee aren't I a moron!"
feeling.)

> >   Umm, no.  The Pro series are based on the F11 and J11 processors,
> > a.k.a. LSI-11,
> 
> You'd do best not to argue with a guy who not only had one such machine
> (since traded up to a "real" PDP-11), but also still has a "PDP-11
> Systems And Options Catalog, January-March 1985" sitting here on his
> desk open to the page titled "Professional 300 Series -- The Personal
> PDP-11".  :-)

  I'd do best not to argue...??  C'mon, Greg...I've bought these systems
*new*.  I used to SELL some of them (the Pro-series systems) at a
retail store.  My "Systems and Options" catalogs have my name on the
address label.  I currently have four Pro systems and sixteen complete
PDP-11s, having obtained my first one nearly twenty years ago.  You're
really barking up the wrong tree, here.  But something tells me you're
not quite bright enough to shut up, so I'll give you some more free
advice.

  You clearly know little to nothing about these systems aside from a
few scattered pieces of random information, and you're going to
accomplish nothing other than make yourself look like an idiot by
continuing to press this issue.  I suggest you drop it now...you may
learn something, and you may save a little face...though, it's not
like you've got much left after your little performances today.. ;)

> Ah, yes, on that point you're absolutely right --  the Professional 300
> series used the "CTI-bus"

  Ahh, finally a name for that bus!

  Fucking idiot.

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar