[geeks] Now for something completely geek

[Mike Meredith]

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:28:28 -0400, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
> Mon, 28 Aug 2006 @ 01:24 +0100, Mike Meredith said:
> > shilling wasn't introduced until 1548 (or possibly 1487).
>
> I was taught that the issue of currency like the shilling was just a
> renaming of the roman currencies to make the money 'british'.

It's doubtful. Whilst the origins of the words 'pound' and 'shilling' do
derive from Latin words (via Germanic languages), they are to do with
weights not currency. The word 'penny' probably doesn't.

England had a rather more complete break with the Roman past than places
such as France, Italy, and Spain. The romanobritish tended to fight,
lose and retreat (eventually to Cornwall, Wales, and Brittany) whereas
"barbarians" in other places tended to take over the local roman
government. Thus continental titles of nobility include "count" (derived
from the Roman "Comes") whereas England lacks this title.

The average Anglo-Saxon before Offa minted his "penny" in 790 probably
called almost any precious metal coin a penny*. Whether it was a coin
minted by the local king, a coin from the far side of the barbarian
world, or a relic of the Romans. It is doubtful whether the denarius
would have been trusted anyway ... it was thoroughly debased and
replaced by the 3rdC. It only remained as an accounting device.

* The average Anglo-Saxon probably wouldn't have encountered many in
their lifetime and producing one would have drawn a crowd ("Hey look,
Offa gave me one of his new pennies for taking him that message",
"ooh"). And of course they were hoarded for generations probably for the
purpose of acquiring property.

It is doubtful that enough roman currency survived to be usefully used
by the 14th/15th C when the shilling was introduced ... possibly when
the economy had changed sufficiently that us commoners had a need for a
larger denomination coin.

The #sd could well be a late latinisation of the money system to make it
more 'respectable'.

> That's not uncommon.  France, for example, does that for everything
> that smells foreign...

That's the French way. The English are more inclined to adopt something
foreign and a few generations later claim it was theirs all along. Thus
this discussion :)