[geeks] Now for something completely geek

[Mike Meredith]

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:16:38 -0400 (EDT), Sandwich Maker wrote:
> " Ottoman Empire
> " British Empire
> " Mughal Empire
> " and whatever the Chinese were/are should probably count as an
> empire. " _______________________________________________
> 
> okay, i should have said in europe.  

Ah! That makes more sense, although ...

> the mughals and chinese
> definitely weren't.  

Oops! I was thinking of the Mongols rather than the Mughals. I get those
two confused when I'm tired (although the Mughals count in a list of
post-roman empires). The Mongols were certainly well into Eastern Europe
and Russia is essentially a Mongol creation. 

> the ottomans never got as far as italy, though
> they do sort of count.  was their hold on eastern europe ever very
> secure?  

Pretty secure. Especially in the south east. There's some who theorise
that the Balkans are currently (in a historical sense) so unstable
because except for brief periods they've never had much in the way of
independence.

> the british never conquered europe even if they did briefly
> gain control of greece.

As they did in some senses most of France (if King John had been
luckier, it could well be that the English would be speaking French and
the French ruled by an English king), France (during the Napolionic
wars), Spain (ditto), parts of Germany (WWII), etc. Besides which the
British Empire was part of/close enough to Europe to have an enormous
influence (after all the UK isn't far from mainland Europe).

As for other empires that conquered part of Europe (and don't forget
that the Romans didn't conquer the whole of Europe), don't forget the
Islamic empire under the Umayyad Dynasty who conquered most of
Spain/Portugal (El-Andeluse), which was the route by which so much
knowledge came to Europe. Including the so-called Arabic numerals.

> i was thinking primarily of empires we count as part of -our- history
> tree.

I guess I think more in terms of influences. For instance China has
never been part of Europe, but Chinese trade with Europe has had an
enormous influence over the years. The silk road (and dominance of the
trade by the Arabs and Venicians) pushed the Portugese into attempting
to find a route by sea around Africa.

It could be that the "Spanish monarchs" (the unification of Spain was
only just beginning) funded Columbus to see if they could get into the
action.