[geeks] CCW for Ohio!

[Francisco Javier Mesa-Martinez]

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Mike Hebel wrote:

>
> On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 01:05 AM, Francisco Javier
> Mesa-Martinez wrote:
>
> > I do understand that in order for those systems to work, a certain
> > degree
> > of expectations from the society are expected.
>
> True.  We just disagree where in society those systems are placed.
>
> > Well educated parents should be able to do such tasks, a parent does
> > not
> > automatically become a good parent as a de facto characteristic. If it
> > can
> > not be regulated, at least "helped".
>
> Granted.  The problem appears again "who decides the standards"? A good
> Muslim parent decides her daughter has to wear a veil.  Are they bad
> parents?  It's a slippery slope.

That is a very good point... these are all issues, that although no body
can really answer, I believe we can not afford to just ignore. And I am
afraid in most modern societies we put those things aside til is too late.

But there is also the problem that in most modern societies, and esp the
American, you have a very real problem when it comes to be a parent,
mainly due to the long hours and lack of involvement with the kid's
development.

> >> One acronym - DMCA.  A flawed system where no system would be better.
> >
> > Touche on that one, however it was an imperfect system showeled down
> > our
> > throats, with only one side involved in its creation and
> > implementation.
>
> Thus the way a good majority of laws are created.  It's very rare that
> a majority votes all for the same thing despite separate interests.

The perception I am getting from some of the messages I read here is that
overall a lot of people just do not trust the government and htat nothing
good has or can come out of it. So the main question is what to do about
it, if it clearly does not work do you really need it, or do you fix it.
Or you justs deal with it and get used to it.

> You did and I understood it quite well.  FWIW I agree with you.  The
> problem is one of action though in those cases not law.  No law will
> push back the tanks of the Chinese government rolling over their own
> people.  Action is necessary.  Of course, in my opinion - and yours per
> previous posts, that is why the constitution exists the way it does.

The main difference is that the Chinese people did not accept their
government, nor they can make the government accountable. Probably here it
may be the same, however ther may be still an illusion of the contrary.
In all respect I believe it is quite a feat that the American constitution
has survived as long as it has, so I trust the system set up was quite an
achievement IMHO.

> Read 1984 by George Orwell.  The reason people are not revolting is
> that they have been trained not to.  Not openly but subtly.  (Hi again
> Mr. Ashcroft!  Just a friendly discussion!)
> By media which is censored, by being convinced that they have to give
> up their liberties to be safe, and by group apathy of not having an
> immediate hope of changing things.

I have read most of Orwell's works, since it is one of my favourite
autors. And I do agree that there are plenty of similarities, to the point
that I have quite spooked for a while. There is also a lot of the fascist
playbook being played too, quite interesting times the past decade I must
say.

> Yet that still puts them at risk.  You have those experiences of death
> - they don't.  They won't be able to react properly when confronted
> with those situations unless you teach them.

I understand where you are coming from, I just found plenty of things once
I saw/comfronted death. One of the things I learned was that you can not
prepare for it, it is almost instictive. Again, I know I do not make sense
on this. But it is just a desire to reduce the negativity my kid may be
surrounded by. And I do not even have a kid, so this whole talk depresses
teh f. outta me since I just wanna finish my Ph.D. :).

> Unfortunately and genetic memory, provided that it existed in the first
> place in humans, has been so overwhelmed or subdued that it's of no use
> except in the most extreme situations.
> Do you really want to trust your child's life to "bad flash ram"?  So
> to speak anyway.

I just wanna work hard for an environnment that the ones I love do not
have to "fight" for their lives if I can help it. Naive, impossible,
perhaps, laughable, probably. Just my little wish.

 >
> > We are all strongly opinionated, I just happen to have a different
> > opinion
> > on this issue. I did not however wanted this to degenerate into some
> > sort
> > of personal playground bickering contest.
>
> Unfortunately that's the same thing that keeps us Americans from
> uniting in unison against our freedoms being stolen.  :-(

Well divide and conquer has always worked... and the guys at the top know
it.