[geeks] Ok I am ready to kill this Fu**ing linux box

[alex j avriette]

> IMO, two people out of millions doesn't make a valid statistical
> sampling.  While Linux has it's shortcomings, I think most of the
> problems experience by Mike are not with *Linux* as the kernel, but with
> the GNU stuff built around it.  Failed dependencies aren't Linux's
> fault, rather they're the fault of the developer, packager, distributor,
> or (gasp) sysadmin.

first, im not convinced that a) millions of people use xine, and b) that 
millions of people happily use linux. i'm sure that a large percentage 
of the people who use linux use it because they would prefer to not use 
windows (or macos or whatever). this is documented, and rms even 
answered a question about people using linux out of ideological reasons. 
but i digress.

we arent just talking about two users among millions. we're talking 
about two users on a mailing list. we're also talking about two 
competent (and in my case certified) technicians. its very very easy to 
play the "user error" card when you're talking about average users. that 
is not the case here.

i will not even address the debate re: "linux isnt an operating system, 
its a kernel" because every time i bring it up deriding linux, somebody 
says I'm FOS. you cant use the argument to support linux and at the same 
time say its rubbish when used to defame same.

> There are very nice tools that do the package dependency resolution for
> Linux.  Yast2 comes to mind - search for the package you want to
> install, check it off, click install, it finds the deps and installes
> them.  Quick and easy.  This doesn't hold true for all distributions

it has never been my experience with such tools (such as yUP) that they 
are easy or nice.

> though, and RH is one of the worst, IMO.  Yast2 also may experience odd
> behavior when using an RPM not provided by SuSE - but SuSE provides a
> **metric assload** of packages, so chances are it's there.

this is the inherent problem in the rpm architecture. the one premise it 
is built upon is that rpm's are all built in the same way to the same 
standards. sometimes they will install stuff in /usr/local, sometimes 
just in /usr, sometimes they will go in /opt or whatever. the problem 
is, suse rpms dont work on redhat, redhats dont work on mandrake, and so 
on. when i want an rpm of a particular package, and i go to rpmfind, i 
find Mandrake Cooker. or YDL. or any other distribution but the one I am 
trying to use. the entire purpose of the rpm is defeated by the very 
attitude that makes linux succeed.

> I also just demonstrated that even otherwise fine OSs can have the same
> issues when I built Minicom.  The dependencies are what will kill you,
> but once you've done it a couple times, you begin to understand what
> you're looking for.  Yes, dependencies suck, but they're not confined to
> Linux, and they don't automatically make Linux suck.

but we weren't talking about other os's, we were talking about linux. we 
just had the linux vs bsd flamewar, remember?

alex