[rescue] God bless America

[Francisco Javier Mesa-Martinez]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 12:25:56PM -0700, Francisco Javier Mesa-Martinez wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, rwalkup wrote:
> > Even Israel that now tries to present itself as an "innocent" victim of
> > terrorism had a very active Jewish terrorist network in the late 40s
> > and 50s. Their actions were directly mostly against British interests,
> > England was controlling most of Palestine at that time. 
> > 
> > > > Marxist/Catholic..... thats an odd combo!
> > 
> > Well Marxist and Communist social views are in a sense almost identical to
> > the original Christian ideals. Like Christianism they, Marxists inspired
> > theories, were never implemented correctly. In some sense Jesus was the
> > first communist.
> 
> Yes, this is obvious and logical, since Jesus claimed he was the son
> of God, and Communism claims there is no God.  So of course Jesus was
> a Communist!

Read what I said: in SOME sense he/she was a Communist. I was just giving
a background on the basis for the Theology of Liberation (which mixed
Christian and Marxist ideas/theories).

So did Jesus resemble SOME of the characteristics of a Communist behavior?
He said; "Take all that you own and sell it, then give your money to
the poor and follow me." (Luke 18). "Blessed are the poor, but woe to the
rich."  (Luke 6). After Jesus' death, his original disciples form the
early church  handled all property and wealth in a communal (Communist)
fashion, where there was no concept of personal ownership (which is the
main point of Communist theories, not whether God does or doesn't exist).
Marx based some of his theories on social structures and principles of early
Christian movements. For example he wrote; "Has not Christianity declaimed
against private property, against marriage, against the state?
...Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest
consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat." (Communist Manifesto,
p. 492). Marx does begin and end his theory with parallels to Christian
attitudes of wealth: both Jesus and Marx condemn worldly glorification of
human/capitalist wealth to the point of eventual apocalypse/revolution. 
Where Marxist ideals and Jesus' preaching deeply differ is in the goals
for these "ultimate  judgments." Jesus promises a new kingdom of heaven,
wherein the divine asserts its rightful place above material concerns;
Marx's contrasting paradise exalts those physical goods over capitalist
private property. (R. McNary, Stanford)

The common misconception is to brand the soviet leninist movement as
"communism". Specially in this country, where it is taken to be almost an
insult. Communism is a broad socio-economic theory, and it doesn't have to
be associated with just a denial of God. Hence the existance of Christian
groups that followed certain Marxist and Communist ideals.

> 
> Such an idiotic statement, I won't bother reading or responding to the
> rest of your post.

Well you did not really bothered reading the first part either, so why
bother with the rest, eh? You are free to read it or not, that is
your choice. However I find it fascinating how you are able to dismiss
other people's messages w/o even reading them....

> Bye bye troll!

No need to call people names. You don't agree with me, that is cool. But
do not start insulting me. I am neither Marxist, nor Religious... so I
could care less. This was just a discussion on the fact that Terrorist
actions are not contained to just Islamic movements... which somehow is
not really related to SUN rescue anyways.....