[geeks] Leopard, was: find - having a senior moment

[Mark]

On 15 Jan 2008, at 01:01, Shannon Hendrix wrote:

> Somewhat related:  I wish Apple would fix the inconsistency in file
> drag operations.  If you drag to a local destination, it does a move.
> If you drag to a remote location or another drive, it does a copy.
>
> That's bloody stupid.  They need to make up their mind what the
> default is and stick with it.  It's even a violation of Apple's basic
> GUI rules.

As far as I've found, that's a convention in GUI desktops that goes  
back over 20 years to my knowledge. I'll just run off a quick list of  
OSs *I've used* that I know do it:

Mac OS (6.0.8 to 10.5.1)
Windows (3.1 up)
Solaris (7, 9 and 10, in CDE and JDS)
Linux/BSD (all 'X11' Desktop file managers in KDE, GNOME and XFCE)
IRIX 6.5
Amiga OS 1.3 thru 4.0
Acorn RISC OS (2 thru 5)
AIX 4.3.3 and 5.3L (again, in CDE)

Not exhaustive by any means but it's a pretty good cross-section of  
platforms and OSs. I've always accepted it as the normal way. Why is  
it like this? Because in the old days 'moving' a file from one disk or  
partition to another was risky (and still is if you are paranoid like  
me), ergo they decided to make the user use manual 'copy and delete'  
methodology to prevent data loss as much as possible. The crux is a  
'move' inside a partition involves a simple alteration to the file  
table and the data is not disturbed (even this fails sometimes and you  
lose the file pointer but at least you can salvage the data). A 'move'  
on a file from one partition to another means copying and removing the  
original, and if it goes wrong (as in Apple's case, where it misses  
the fact the write at the destination fails) there is *potential* for  
it to lead to data loss.

> Microsoft does it too.

Oh, now it's a global crime because Microsoft do it... ;)

> Having shown a lot of newbies how to use computers over the years, I
> find the inconsistency of the file drag operations to be one of the
> hardest things to get across to new users.

Yes. I agree. It's a total pain, especially when for some people drag  
and drop presents the most logical visual semantics as away to operate  
with files and applications (something the Mac has always picked up on  
well). On the same count though, some people just 'don't get it.  
Problem is that if you used most other mainstream OSs you'd have the  
same problems, if not more, so it's not exactly worth beating up on  
Apple for it.

> Even after all these years, is still causes me grief too.
>
> Apple, of all companies, should be getting this one right, and they
> don't.

Frankly, they'd be damned if they did and damned if they didn't,  
because it's such a long held convention.

> With that logic in mind, anyone who trust a computer store files in
> the first place needs a kick in the arse.

That's what backups and backups of backups are for :)

> Seems to me you are just drawing your line in the sand in a different
> spot... :)

I don't trust computers to do much apart from go wrong when it's least  
convenient ;)

> But seriously, it does amaze me how much people have come to trust
> their machines, especially the people who should know better.

Indeed, hard drives are anything but, and people really don't seem to  
realise that.

> There is no telling how much that costs us every year.

Thankfully that one has not often kicked me in the arse. *Knocks on  
wood*.