[geeks] Leopard, was: find - having a senior moment

[Mark]

On 14 Jan 2008, at 23:40, Jonathan C. Patschke wrote:

>>> X11 is broken.
>>
>> I think you are a masochist using X11 on OS X full-stop. I tried once
>> but I didn't inhale.
>
> Given that my job involves writing a large amount of Unix software, I
> rather expect and need Unix software (X11) to work on a certified Unix
> OS.  So, it's either Apple's Unix[1] or someone else's.

They could staple the certificate to my face and I'd still not take it  
that seriously. If I need to work in true UNIX environment I'd work in  
something like Solaris, either in a VM (if it works - I haven't had  
much trouble using S10 in Parallels under Leopard) or native if it  
doesn't (which also works AFAIK on Intel).

> That's nice, but you don't speak for Apple.

And that makes my 7 years of experience on the platform (from release  
10.0.3 forward), supporting users through the community and in person,  
totally irrelevant I suppose. I wouldn't post something here if I  
didn't think there was some value and truth in it. I have had bad  
repercussions from upgrading OS X versions in the past. I steer clear.  
I never said "I speak for the whole universe and satan's dog when I  
**really** don't recommend you upgrade", I simply stated my personal  
view. You're right, I don't speak for Apple. I speak for me, and I was  
trying to offer helpful advice. If you'd prefer to listen to Apple  
then that's okay, after all they know what they are talking about right?

> If it doesn't work, the option shouldn't be there, especially in an  
> OS whose adopted tagline is "it just works".

The thing is it does work for *most* people. The problem at hand is  
it's total pot-luck *who* it does and doesn't work for. IMHO using a  
slogan like 'It just works' is setting yourself up for one hell of a  
fall. They got a lot of battering over that one, and a lot of press  
hacks went to great pains to point out how wrong the phrase actually  
was.

> Apple recommends the upgrade by virtue of it being an available  
> option, and it being the default option.

So does Windows Vista... need I say anymore?

>> It's worked Just Fine for me from 10.1 -> 10.2 and 10.2 -> 10.3 ->  
>> 10.4.
> The upgrade to 10.5 was the first one that didn't work well.

See, this is what I mean. 10.1 to 10.2 screwed up on me. 10.2 to 10.3  
did too. I never even bothered when I went 10.3 to 10.4, I did a clean  
install off the bat, and it worked flawlessly (as you'd expect). My  
experience isn't typical, I know, and it and others I read about are  
just bad luck most likely, and the failures happened on different  
machines for each OS version, so it wasn't like it consistently broke  
on the same machine, but on the same count it did break twice on 2  
very different machines. The crux is it's always been an issue at  
every major upgrade for some folks, and it's always hard to predict  
who, so I advise people steer clear, and use a fresh install or an  
'archive and install' (and don't keep the user settings) and move the  
files across using the Migration Assistant, or by hand.

> Well, if they want to coddle the idiots and alienate the technical and
> professional users, they'll be well on their way to taking over
> Microsoft's role on the desktop.

It may have escaped your notice but Apple are pretty good at coddling  
idiots. That said WTF is your problem with a calender icon that  
actually shows the right date? It's semantics, man, you glance at a  
calendar and expect it to say the right date, if it doesn't then it's  
no use...

> CS2 was released in Q2 2005.  That's not even three years of service  
> for
> a $600 application; not "ancient history" by any reasonable  
> definition.

You seem to have missed the point that it's an Adobe product, as soon  
as it's superseded it becomes 'ancient history' as far as they are  
concerned. The blame falls with Adobe for not adopting XCode sooner,  
there was a period when Apple transitioned to Intel when it looked  
like Adobe would pull the plug on the Mac because they didn't want to  
move to XCode, but I think Apple talked them round and provided  
training for their programmers to get em on a head start. I have to  
say the results, in CS3 are mighty impressive too, and the speed of  
the Apps is unreal (although I may be biased as I have a Mac Pro).

> I realize I'm being really silly for buying a computer specifically
> because it supports the technologies I need to do my work, and then
> expecting them to actually work when I try to use them, but....oh  
> wait,
> that's not silly at all, given that those are exactly the  
> requirements I
> have to meet to get paid.

I can understand your frustrations, but really there's not a hell of a  
lot of an answer to that other than being an apologist for Apple, and  
I don't do that anymore, if they screw I call em for being idiots, and  
in this case, well they have screwed up I guess and are idiots.

-- 
Mark Benson

My Blog:
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