[geeks] Problem booting G3 B&W

[Ido Dubrawsky]

On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 05:33:09PM -0500, geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote:
> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:41:33 +0300
> From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm at mendelson.com>
> Subject: Re: [geeks] Problem booting G3 B&W
> To: The Geeks List <geeks at sunhelp.org>
> Message-ID: <20050907164133.GB31140 at cable.mendelson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 12:04:40PM -0400, Ido Dubrawsky wrote:
> 
> > I recently got a G3 B&W PowerMac for the private school my kids go to (one of 
> > the teachers uses Macintosh and so they bought this and I'm in the process of
> > getting it going).  
> 
> Which model? Check the web for the way to tell the difference. If it
> has a double IDE disk bracket, it's the second model. If not, it may be
> the first. The first model will NOT read properly from a fast IDE drive.
> The bad thing is it might and then will fail with strange errors.
> 
I'm not sure which model...it's got a zip drive, a CD drive and a 10GB Maxtor
drive.  I discovered that it was a 10GB drive and not a 6.4GB like I previously
thought.  I presume that it's the second model but I can't tell for sure.
>
> The largest drive that works with the onboard IDE controller is a 20 GIG
> Maxtor, some other brands such as IBM don't work as they are too fast.
> 
> Mine (a first model) has a fujitsu 13 gig drive in it.
> 
>  
> > It's got 640MB of RAM, a CD, a Zip Drive, and a 6.4GB Maxtor hard drive.  It
> > booted up just fine the first day but now it won't recognize any drives except
> > for the CD (I can boot into the MacOS X installer and that's about it).  It's
> > running OpenFirmware 3.X and the default boot-device is set to:
> 
> There could be 2 problems that I can think of with my magic turban on. :-)
> 
> 1. There is a memory problem. Try cutting the memory down to 256 meg.
>    The maximum memory that will work is 1024meg but no single chip can be
>    larger than the ones in an 128 meg DIMM. If you have a 256 meg DIMM, it
>    MUST have two sets of chips. 
> 
>    The memory also has to be all 133mHz or the memory bus will run at 100mHz.
>    Some 133mHz RAM will run at 100mHz, some won't. 
> 
The memory is 100MHz memory.  The possible problem is that the new memory is
2 x 256MB sticks and it already has a 128MB stick in there.  I've removed the 
512MB of new memory and it still won't recognize the Maxtor drive.
>
> 2. The drive itself is bad. If you have a second model it should work with
>    a bigger drive, possibly 120meg. If you have a first model it will not.
>    Note that some thrid party pre-OSX software and OSX 10.0-10.2 would 
>    automaticly set the drive to the lower speed and any drive that it would
>    recognize would work. This was dropped in 10,3 (Panther) and 10.4 Tiger.
> 
When it did boot I found out that it had Panther installed.  I can't imagine
it's the drive as I've tried two others (a 7.5GB Quantum Fireball and a 120GB
Western Digital) and they both were not recognized by the OS installer (OS 10.2
-- my OS 10.3 disks won't even boot this puppy).
>
> 2a. Most of the DVD drives will not boot DVDs. Especialy third party ones.
>     In order to install Tiger, I needed to use XPostFacto, but unistalled
>     it when I was done. I've since gotten a CD version.
> 
It's got a CD drive in it.
> 
> > which is the default (I set it to that value after zapping the PRAM when it
> > started having boot problems...before it was set to ata0...something -- I can't
> > recall).  I've tried the installer again but it doesn't see the drives.
> 
> Which installer? The older MacOS installers will not recognize a non Apple
> drive. I don't know if OS9 will or not. OSX will format just about anything.
> 
Sorry...I should have specified: OS 10.2 installer.  
>
> > I got the '?' folder several times before it finally recognized 
> > the disk -- now I just don't get anything).
> 
> That's caused either by a bad or dying disk or the PRAM being set to a 
> device that no longer exists.
> 
Well here's a twist to the whole story.  I tried the MacOS 9.2.2 install CD and
the system found the disks and allowed me to re-initialize them.  I then tried
the OS 10.2 installer and it found the disk (which I had partitioned into two
partitions each about 5GB big).  When I went to install it it came up with an
error and I could only reboot.  I'm going to try my hand at it again but it 
could well be the disk.  Although I can't understand why the MacOS 9.2.2 
installer succeeded in seeing the disk and working with it and the OS 10.2 
installer couldn't.
> 
> > Anyone have ideas?  Should I send it back to the seller and request a 
> > replacement Mac?  Should I try an ATTO SCSI card and drives first?
> 
> If you have to buy one, then get an IDE controler. They are around $70
> new. If you get one the firware understands than you can put up to a 120gig
> drive in either model. However if it's a second model, I would just 
> put a smaller drive in it and see what happens.
> 
I may consider that.  I just want to know how to tell the two models apart
definitively.

Ido
-- 
===============================================================================
Ido Dubrawsky, CISSP           		E-mail:          ido at dubrawsky.org
Network Security Architect			   idubraws at siliconsec.com
dubrawsky.org
500 Hermleigh Rd
Silver Spring, MD. 20902
(301) 651-5441 (cell)
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