[rescue] Linux wet paint, was Re: Spark10 CPU question (must fix - SPARC damnit :-) )

[Ian Finder]

First CCtalk and now Rescue.

Can this entire genre of devolving discussions into "modern OS rant thread"
please go die in a fire? Permanently?

A few of us actually subscribe to this list for the nominal purpose of
classic computing, and couldn't give two shits about these never-ending
battles of "wit."

When 9/10ths of the volume of the list traffic are for shitposts like this,
it makes me eye the unsubscribe button.

This is not a criticism of Dave in particular. If you are engaging on this
thread you are all part of the problem- now I am part of it too.

Now back to working on my VAX 11/750 project.

Happy holidays, and may you all get lots of downtime to work on your
vintage gear!

Cheers,

- Ian

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 15:26 Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:

> On 12/18/2016 06:14 PM, Mouse wrote:
>
> >> I can't disagree on any of those points.  However, the real-world
>
> >> situation with Linux isn't quite so bleak.  This is evident by the
>
> >> simple fact that, in a great many applications, including the sending
>
> >> of this email, it works.
>
> >
>
> > If all you're interested in is a black-box tool, then, sure, go ahead
>
> > and use Linux.  Or WinCE.  Or VxWorks.  Or whatever else you find does
>
> > what you want it to do without doing too much you don't want.
>
>
>
>   As far as my desktop system, a black-box tool is exactly what I want.
>
> Whether I'm designing hardware, writing firmware, testing either,
>
> gathering data, controlling instrumentation, or typing an email, I want
>
> (and demand) a tool that works 100% of the time, the way I want it to,
>
> and doesn't get in my way.  That's what I have, right now, with a
>
> high-end PeeCee running Linux.
>
>
>
>   A Linux fanboy I am not, and you know full well how much I dislike
>
> PeeCees.  But that doesn't change the statement above.
>
>
>
> > Assumng, of course, you can _tell_ what it's doing, which I suspect you
>
> > mostly can't, except for the most superficial user-interaction things.
>
>
>
>   I'm reasonably adept at figuring out what a UNIX system is up to, as
>
> you well know.
>
>
>
> >>>> And Android is just fantastic and generally just WORKS, 'nuff said.
>
> >>> [...] I disagree.  [...]  It's a huge crawling horror pitched over
>
> >>> the fence with no real documentation.
>
> >> Mine just works.  All day, every day.  My phone and several tablets.
>
> >> I reboot a couple of times per year to install OS updates, but that's
>
> >> it.
>
> >
>
> > Sounds like poor QA to me.  Unless you've been meddling with the OS.
>
>
>
>   I think we have a disconnect.  Please re-read what I said above your
>
> response.
>
>
>
> >> How do yours fail?
>
> >
>
> > I don't have any, because Android fails to do what I want in one of the
>
> > very first, and most important to me, ways: it is not open source.
>
> > Every Android device I have found such information out about has
>
> > required binary blob drivers for at least some of the hardware.  (That
>
> > it's hard to find such information at all for most Android devices is
>
> > another, and perhaps worse, failing.  For my purposes, of course.)
>
>
>
>   Ahh ok.  I, on the other hand, want to make phone calls and send text
>
> messages.  That's why I have a phone.
>
>
>
> >> Not liking the way something is designed is very different from
>
> >> thinking it doesn't or cannot do its job.
>
> >
>
> > But what is "its job"?  The first job of an operating system for one of
>
> > my computers is to be fully open source.  Computers are _not_ black-box
>
> > tools to me, and a system - hardware or software - that assumes they
>
> > are has, for my purposes, already failed.
>
>
>
>   Understood.  To each his own.  I don't like some of the design
>
> decisions either, but there exists nothing better in the current era,
>
> that I've been able to find.  If I'm wrong (and I'd love to be, since I
>
> hate running friggin' PeeCees) please point me in the right direction.
>
>
>
>            -Dave
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
>
> New Kensington, PA
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue