[rescue] OT: B0rked educational system (was: Purdue/PSU)

[Joshua D Boyd]

On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 04:26:57PM -0500, Loomis, Rip wrote:
> I'm not a huge fan of the educational *system* in this country
> (most of what I learned before age 21 I learned in spite of
> formal education), but I must take issue with some of your
> broad brush strokes:
> 
> > Overpaid,
> My wife is an elementary school teacher with a bachelor's and
> master's in her specialty, and 10+ years experience.  In most
> white collar jobs she'd make half again as much as she does--
> in my line of work perhaps twice what she does.  When we were
> looking at moving to Florida just after we got married, the
> quoted salary for those quals was $25k a year.  Unbelievable.

It is possible for teachers to make quite good wages, but from what I hear it
only happens after a teacher has been at the same school for 20 years.  If you
move every 10 years, you are screwed.  Personally I think this really sucks.

I think that teachers are underpaid, but I think this is the least of our
school problems, and I don't think increasing public school teacher pay is 
going to help because many private schools pay teachers a lot less (at least
they do around here), and yet still are significantly superior to the public
schools.
 
> > unionized
> I have a very negative opinion of most unions, so I won't
> argue this point--aside from historical reasons, most current
> unions in this country are more about bargaining and politics
> than about actually helping the worker.  My brother-in-law
> *did* convince me that unions aren't all bad, both by discussion
> and by deed.

Unions in general, I'm not going to discuss.  The teachers union though, I
believe is particularly evil.  In my state, they spent a fortune trying to
make homeschooling illegal, and then they spent a fortune trying to make it
next to impossible to homeschool (they suggested for instance that families
should only be allowed to homeschool if one of the parents is a certified
teacher).  And the teachers union also is extremely hard on private schools.
One thing they tried to do is require that every teacher be certified in the
subject that they teach in the state.  There are many private schools, very
good ones, who have teachers teaching classes that they weren't certified in
for one reason or another.  For instance, there is no reason that a woman
certified in physics education shouldn't be just as good at teaching math.
 
> > can't-be-fired teachers
> There are good and bad points to this--same as there are good
> and bad points to US Government civil service jobs.  Both my
> parents retired from the civil service--the fact that way too
> many folks in that category should be forceably removed from
> their chairs does not make *all* of them worthless or suitable
> for denigration.
> 
> The principle of tenure once had a point, and still might at
> higher levels of education.  If education was actually
> important enough to pay well, then folks might choose to do
> it for a living.  Another comparison is to the military--"sea
> pay" is all very well and good, but a poor substitute for time
> with ones family (or a chance to meet someone and *start* a
> family).
> 
> If you ever want an eye-opening experience, become a volunteer
> or a substitute teacher--some kids are wonderful while other
> kids (and some parents) can make a teacher's day pretty bad.
> Even the best teachers.

I support tenure at the university level.  I have a hard time with it at the
secondary or primary levels though.
  
> > Read up on the actual history of American education and you will find
> > that it is based on the Prussian model - the same model that led
> > Germany to the formation of the Third Reich.  Not good.
> 
> It's difficult to see that the Prussian model of education led
> clearly to the Third Reich.  In fact, I would list it (at the
> *most*) as one of the minor contributing factors.  The current
> educational system in this country is perhaps partially derived
> from the old Prussian model.  Therefore, what's your point?
> Are you trying to imply that our current educational system
> will lead to a Thousand Year Right-Wing Conspiracy in this
> country?

Yeah, I don't see the connection between the 3rd reigh and the prussian
school model.  The 3rd reigh rose (IMO) because they fed the starving, and
when you are starving, you don't worry too much about ideals.
 
> Here's my proposal:  Allow continued campaign contributions of "soft
> money" but require all such donations to be registered (as they are
> now) *and* require 2/3 of every dollar to go to education.  1/3 in
> the tax district of the company or organization that's making the
> "donation" and 1/3 as directed by those receiving the contribution--
> and then publish *those* amounts (and destinations) as well.

That sounds like a pretty wierd solution.  And, what if a company wants to
finance a canidate who plans to cut school spending?  It would suck to finance
those schools protest activities.


-- 
Joshua D. Boyd