[geeks] job hunt...

[velociraptor]

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Dan Sikorski <me at dansikorski.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 01, 2012 at 11:22:48AM -0700, Nadine Miller wrote:
>> 72K/yr is insultingly low, IMO, Shannon.  I'm in Las Vegas, and making
more
>> than the offer you received from Dahlgren.  Las Vegas is not known for
high
>> salaries in tech since the majority of folks employed here are Windows
>> admins.
>
> Actual $ amounts are all relative.  Depending on area, cost of living, job
demand, etc..

I don't disagree about job duties, location, etc. affecting pay rate,
but here's the deal: CoL estimate web sites are, IMO, BS for the most
part.  The cost of a new vehicle (and other high dollar goods like
appliances) and many other goods do not fluctuate that much from
location to location.  Based on the number of times I've moved in the
past two decades--more than I like to think about--the only things I
consider are rental rates and taxes (state income tax, gasoline tax,
and sales tax) when I'm looking at compensation variance.

For example, based on moving from .ca.us (near SFO) to .nv.us (Las
Vegas), my CoL should have plummeted, since there's no state income
tax and my rental rate went down by almost 30%.  But, my power bill
more than doubled (.ca.us subsidies), as did my water, ISP, and other
utilities.  Total effect was about a 10-15% improvement in expendable
income.

This job finally got me back close to where I was in '01, so I am
very, very hesitant to do anything that will set me back again, given
the hike in fuel prices over the last year as well as the other CoL
increases we are seeing.  But my work is one big cluster fsck at this
point, so finding a new job is necessary.  I can no longer trust
anything that management says.

> Finally, Mr. Bill, I suspect that you do not need to be told this, but if
you're happy with your employer and your compensation package, do not let what
anyone says affect your happiness there.  In my experience, most discussion of
compensation packages resembles conversation of other packages, it it not
considered polite conversation, people exaggerate, vaguely imply that theirs
is larger, and if they provide numbers, they are usually inflated. :)  That
said, folks on this list do seem to be more honest and forthcoming than the
average person, so that may e misplaced here.

I won't speak in specifics on a publicly archived mailing list, but I
have no issues talking about compensation privately with people.  I
think that the fear of discussing compensation is misplaced.  In my
opinion, it's an attitude encouraged by corporations to prevent people
from knowing whether management is treating them fairly wrt to
everyone else doing the same job. (Just like many other things that
management does to subtly influence the way people think about their
workplace and job.)  I have no issues with the "stars" of my team
being paid more than me for their experience and know-how.  However,
if they are making 30-50% more than I am, that is a problem.

Having managed system and network admins, I've given compensation
quite a lot of thought.

> In a lot of the reading I did about job searching, there was discussion
about how despite how frequently it is given as a reason for accepting a new
job, pay is rarely what causes people to look for a new job.  People usually
look for a new job because they are unhappy with other aspects, then when they
find that a different job can pay more, that is icing on the cake and all the
reason they need to jump ship.  I would say that was pretty accurate for me.
 The only thing that ever caused me to question the compensation at my
previous job was when raises stopped coming at appropriate times and pay
"restructuring" that was in fact thinly veiled paycuts were going around.

Most people leave their job because of their direct manager, that's
not really news, Dan. :-)  But I'm not looking at compensation in this
case with a tactical mindset, I'm looking at it strategically.  If a
company is not willing even come close to the market rate for people
with your level of experience and skill set when making a job offer,
what's that tell you about their overall attitude toward employees?
Like the other "red flags" you mentioned, it's a major indicator of a
corporation for which you don't want to work.

I have some very pointed questions that I ask every potential employer
these days, having been burned too many times.

As to Lionel's question, would $20K/yr fix my problem? No, not unless
it was handed to me as a lump sum. :-)  Then I'd quit, take the $20K
to go to two bootcamps I want to attend for certs, then look for new
job. :-)  My current problem is a buzzword compliant, technically
clueless exec who has frakked up a very good gig by deciding to try
and outsource everything--including an IT infrastructure the
corporation owns that has already been depreciated. ;_;

=Nadine=