[geeks] eBay question

[Dan Sikorski]

Phil Stracchino wrote:
> Dan Sikorski wrote:
>   
>> Phil Stracchino wrote:
>>     
>>> I agree it is not fraudulent.  However, I still feel it is deceptive.
>>> It amounts to advertising something for sale at a starting price you
>>> know up front you have no intention of ever honoring, while concealing
>>> that fact from the buyer.
>>>       
>> The seller is not concealing that fact from the buyer.  Every reserve 
>> price auction indicates very clearly that it has a reserve price.  The 
>> only thing concealed is the actual reserve amount.
>>     
>
> That's not entirely true.  There is, I think, a way to list that an
> auction has a reserve, but I think I've only ever seen about two or
> three auctions that stated up front there was a reserve.  Barring that,
> you have no way to know that there is a reserve until you or someone
> else bids, and even then, you have no way to know what the reserve is
> until and unless someone bids above the [unknown] reserve.
>   
I have never seen anything like that.  If you can show me any 
information from ebay about that option, or show me an example of an 
auction like that.  I would be interested in seeing it.
>> If you understand the auction process, it's not deceptive.  If you don't 
>> understand the process, you probably should not bid.
>>     
>
> I think you're missing what I'm saying.
>
> Yes, you are immediately notified on the first bid that there is a
> reserve.  You have no way to know what it is, and you cannot know up
> front before making that first bid that there is a reserve at all,
> unless the seller declares it up front.  On an auction with a hidden
> reserve, there is no way to know what the REAL minimum bid that will be
> accepted is, short of just bidding the price up until it tells you the
> reserve has been met.
>   
I'm pretty sure that you are wrong about this "hidden reserve" option. I 
see no evidence of it here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/reserve.html

and nothing references it here, either, although this page specifically 
states that an unofficial reserve is against ebay rules:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-reserve.html

That said, i have never actually sold anything on ebay, so i am not 
intimately familiar with all of the options that a seller has.  From my 
experience as a bidder, i have never seen anything like what you describe.
> It is not LEGALLY deceptive, no.  In the real world, though, I maintain
> that it IS deceptive, because you're *saying* up front "I will entertain
> bids on this item starting at $10", when you actually MEAN "except that
> bids under $500 don't count."  By posting an item with a secret reserve
> price, you are lying about what minimum bid you will accept.  It's just
> that in the auction world, this particular "little white lie" has become
> accepted as "business as usual".
>   
I guess this is really a matter of opinion.  I don't find it deceiving 
at all.  I understand the purpose and use of a reserve price, and have 
no problem with it.  I'll respect your opinion if you respect mine.  
Since we both agree that it is legal, that should be easy to do.
> And as previously discussed, that's why any time I look at an auction
> for an item and it says "Reserve not met", that's the last time I will
> ever look at that item.  What's more, there is no way to tell eBay "Only
> show me listings without a reserve".  If there was, I'd turn that
> preference on and never turn it off again.  (Which is probably why eBay
> does not offer it, and why they probably never will)
As someone else in this thread mentioned, that's fine by me, it means 
less competition in reserve price auctions!  All i have to do is put in 
the amount that i am willing to pay for the item, and if it doesn't meet 
reserve, i know that the seller has rejected my offer to purchase and i 
move on with my life.  Maybe he'll change his mind and send me a second 
chance offer.

    -Dan Sikorski