[geeks] Goodbye, I guess

[Hicheal Morton]

To say Paul was a Jew is quite correct!

His Jewish name was Saul.  He changed it later just as many Jews have
changed their names when they immigrated to the USA.

Both his father and mother (the key parent for determining Jewishness) were
both Jews.  Paul was a Pharisee and a member of the Sanhedrin.  It appears
that his name was enrolled in the records keep at the Temple in Jerusalem.
The record, from my understanding, no longer exists.)  After Paul's
conversion, Saul/Paul continued to be recognized as a rabbi and was
permitted, as evey other Jew, to enter the Temple and go into the areas
reserved for only Jews.  That is, beyond the Court of the Gentiles.

He claimed in his writings to be a Jew, a child of Abraham, and even
persecuted the Church.  (His own claim and also recorded in the historic
record.)  That he was

The people that I read think he was about 5 years younger than Jesus of
Nazareth (called the Christ in Greek).  Being a devote Jew and a Pharisee,
it is possible that he was at the some of the feasts in Jerusalem at the
same time as Jesus of Nazareth was there.  (They were comtemporaries.)
There is no historical record that Saul/Paul meet Jesus of Nazateth before
the crucifixion.

Saul/Paul did not "invent" a new religion.  This is quite the myth.  Peter
was the first to preach a "Christian" sermon and it was full of references
to the Old Testament and, like most early Christian sermons and writing,
propounded Jesus of Nazareth as the fulfillment of Old Testament
prophecies.  Saul/Paul preached the same message--Jesus of Nazareth is the
fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.  This is the same message as
Stephen, the first Christian martyr and the book of Hebrews.  (Disclaimer:
Christians are divdied on the authorship of Hebrew.  While it was received
into the New Testament canon as a writing of Saul/Paul, the internal
evidence, IMHO, shows it was written by someone else.)

So, from the perspective of the Apostles (Peter, John, Matthew, and
Saul/Paul), Stephen the first martyr, early Church writings (mostly
gentiles), the faith expounded and "founded" by Jesus of Nazareth was the
same faith as Abraham and the other partiarchs, David, Asaph, the Prophets.
"The Way", as it was called first ("Christian" camed later from the
Gentiles), was the fulfillment of Judaism and was NOT a new religion.  The
"new religion" misnomer was heard first among Gentiles (since it was new to
them).  In this, the early Church testifies that the throne that Jesus of
Nazareth sits in is the throne of David.

As a practice the Church clings to the Law of God as binding on Christians.
This highlights the fact that Christianity was no "new" religion nor was it
based on the other religions extant at the time except Judaism!

In this discussion, I have reframed from calling Jesus of Nazareth by his
commonly known names among both the Jews and the Gentiles.  It should be
noted that Jesus did claim to be the Son of the God of the Jews.  The early
and subsequent Church also claimed this.  Never doubt that Jesus of Nazareth
claimed to be God! --whether you agree with this statement or not.  It is
important to understand the historical record in order to deal with it
appropriately and honestly.  (One of the failing of modern thought is that
every other culture and people are like the "American" culture and USA
citizens.)


hike



On 8/30/07, Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm at mendelson.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 02:23:39PM -0400, Hicheal Morton wrote:
> > Quite surprising, the apostle Paul was a Jew.
>
> That's not quite correct. Paul was not an apostle. Not in the
> sense that he was one of the 12 apostles. He arrived in Jerusalem
> long after Jesus's death.
>
> Paul wrote that he never met Jesus nor did he ever heard him speak.
> It is believed that he arrived in Jerusalem about 10 years, possibly
> more after Jesus' death.
>
> After a "vision" he created his religion on the road to Damascus (from
> Jerusalem) mostly from other existing religions; Judaism was barely one
> of them. It's based on a total rejection of the basis of Judaism, the
> agreement between man and G-D to follow HIS law.
>
> Paul claimed he was given a new agreement, one which happens to be very
> different from the old one.
>
> I don't really know or care, I follow the original. Paul's getting a
> "new deal" did not release my ancestors from or me from theirs.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm at mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
> IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
> Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
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