[geeks] Goodbye, I guess

[Hicheal Morton]

Well the correct term is "Roman" Catholic Church.  Just Catholic Church
refers to all Christiendom, even Baptists, Church of Christ, Weslyans,
Vinyard, etc., etc.

It is a common misnomer.  The Roman Catholic Church just loves to the called
the "Catholic Church".  Then they can claim all the early Church Fathers for
themselves.

the term, "Roman Catholic Church" is funny in and of itself.  "Catholic"
means universal.  So you end up with a "Roman" universal church.  By
definition, "Roman" is no universal.  (Maybe that's another joke but I find
it funny nonetheless.)

We in the west and particularly in the USA believe in the separation of
church and state.  This is not the usual belief among the different
cultures.  For instance in Iraq, government and Islam are linked in the
minds of the average Iraqi.  that is one of the problems of the political
leaders of Iraqi: while they are trying to set up a "secular" nation, that
concept is totally foreign to them.  That's the situation for most
cultures--religion and state govern together (it may not be a 50/50
partnership.)

The leaders of the early Christian Church thought that way also.  So when
the shift from pagaism to Christianity occurred in the 4th/5th Century Roman
Empire, it was normal.  The Church actually took over some of the "duties"
of government.  Baptism records were birth certificates and citizenship
records--even today, you will see on some US government forms, the
acceptance of infant baptism records as proof of data of birth and citizen.
(US passports have had this for a long time.)  So, during the Reformation,
the Roman Catholic and the Reformers persecuted the Anabaptists because
they, the Anabaptists, did not baptize infants AND neither date of birth or
citizenship could be established.

In the USA, the government keeps these records for the most part.

All this to say that what appears strange to us was normal during that time
that the Roman Empire and the Catholic church were associated.  Nothing
mysterious and no conspiracy.

Now, if I am not going to long, the pagan holidays were "Christianized" by
the early church as a manner to reach out to the pagan community.  Not
everyone at that time agreed with the practice just as not all Christian
groups with the practice today.  (An example is the Christian groups that
claim Halloweds Eve, "Halloween", is an example of pagan influence in the
church and horrible when it was actually the other way around: the Church
was trying to influence the pagan culture and the intent was positive.)

Other means of reaching out to the culture around the church was the  early
church's medical service provided during the days of plague, the attempt to
help prisoners and the poor.  The monastics would teach farming techniques,
etc. to the commoners in an attempt to take of their physical needs (feeding
them today while they learned to be productive farmers).  Many orders and
churches provided jobs for laborors, tradesmen, merchants, etc. in the
building of buildings, the employment of artists, etc.  One of the easiest
to recognize is the careful preservation of ancient (Christian, Greek, etc.)
after the fall of the western Roman Empire and during the middle ages.
Another manner was the university.  The Church sponsored the first
Universities in Europe.  Even in the colonial days of the USA, the first
training school, colleges, and universities were founded by Christians.  The
education of black children and adults after the Civil War (USA) was taken
up by the Church as a ministering to the culture (communities, people, and
people groups).  In England, the "Sunday School" was founded to provide free
education (reading, writing, arithmetic) for the children who worked
full-time in the factories.

So, the assumption of pagan dates for Christian holidays is one of a long
line of the Church seeking to help and influence the culture that the Church
"lived"/existed in.

HIKE


On 8/30/07, Sandwich Maker <adh at an.bradford.ma.us> wrote:
>
> " From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm at mendelson.com>
> "
> "
> " Pauline Christianity is a Roman religion and has very little
> " to do with Judaism.
> "
> " In theory it is based upon Judaism, but in practice it has far more in
> " common with the Egyptian Isis worship and Roman Mithra cults.
>
> i find this very interesting.  i've increasingly thought of the
> catholic church as not so much a religion as the second roman empire.
> and why [for instance] do they celebrate the saxon fertility goddess
> eostre's festival, complete with rabbits and eggs?  or samhain [celtic
> new year's] eve [halloween], complete with demon and undead costumes?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
> internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
> adh at an.bradford.ma.us                       and think what none thought
> _______________________________________________
> GEEKS:  http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks