[geeks] New Tech Schools: Digital Harbor in Baltimore

[wa2egp at att.net]

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon at widomaker.com>
>
> Sun, 15 Apr 2007 @ 16:34 +0000, wa2egp at att.net said:
> 
> > > There is some truth to the idea that you get what you paid for.  However,
> > > teachers are usually paid significantly above average wages in most places
> > > where I've looked it up, so I'm not sure that's really the problem.
> > 
> > That's total BS.  
> 
> I looked at average salaries and in most cases the teachers were above
> average.

Depends on how you average.

> It's certainly like that where I live.

Good. I'll move there.

> If you want to think that's BS, go ahead, you are free to do so... :)

Yes, and I will.
 
> > For the same education?  I don't think so.
> 
> I've never thought the teacher curriculum was very hard. It's pretty
> lightweight.
> 
> One of the big stinks locally not too long ago was the reduction in
> requirements for teachers, including the elimination of coursework in
> hard sciences. School board figures they don't need it.

In New Jersey, you have to have a minor in science to be certified and
school boards prefer a degree.  Unfortunately, most people with a
degree look for higher paying jobs so we either get the really dedicated 
(rare) or losers who couldn't get a job or who couldn't hold on to 
their job.

> Also, there is more to education than college. I know welders who've
> had several times as much classroom work as any teacher. Society just
> doesn't view things like that, even if it is courses in advanced
> physics, as "education". Likewise any cop whose been around for awhile
> has had literally years of classroom education, and I don't just mean
> "crime" classes.

Are you talking "experience"?  Just because you've been a welder for
twenty years doesn't mean you can teach welding.  It is a lot of help
but not necessarily good.  I've seen "retired" engineers come into a
system and "teach" physics.  The students didn't learn a damn thing 
about physics.  There ARE too many teachers who have no practical
experience in the subject they teach.  One of my favoite Simpsons
episodes is one where Lisa steals all of the teacher editions.
The teachers refused to come out of the faculty room because
"they didn't have the answers".  I've met many of those too.

> So I suppose the real answer depends on what qualifies as "education"
> to you. 
> 
> > And don't look at the top scale.  Too easy to use that.
> 
> I'm talking about average salaries. Teachers are above average where
> I've seen information about it.
> 
> But since you mentioned the top scale: if you look at the top pay in
> each job category, again, teachers do better than average, some some
> earning six figures.

I haven't seen this years figures but I don't think there are any in NJ 
like that.  I do know of one district where their top is $95K.  It just
takes 45 years to get there!  So, is top that good a measure?

> > > Just a note: my 6th grade teacher retired at $49K/year in the late 80s or
> > > early 90s. This was when a major or chief on the police force would only get
> > > about $35K/year, and the local average retirement pay was under $22K/year.
> > 
> > Factor in how much they get paid, how long they have to work to reach
> > pension age and how the pay scale goes.  (Teaching is not linear in many
> > cases.)
> 
> Locally teachers hit their top retirement rate faster than almost any
> other civil servant in the same pay range.

Now you speak of civil servants.  Do they have to have the same education?
Same job requirements?  Does their pay have a linear increase (same every year)
or does it balloon at the end.  Most jobs need the golden 80 (age plus
years of service).
 
> > > Quantitative analysis is popular, but useless in most cases.
> > 
> > And the balance between quantitative and qualitative is hard to find,
> > especially agreement about the balance between different parties.
> > A good vocabulary is not a good indicator of the thinking behind
> > the words. :)
> 
> For example, listen to a politician.  He might be well spoken and win
> arguments, but how many times have you heard one actually say anything?

Clinton was an expert in that.

> Then you have people like Jesse Jackson, who is so smart, he is
> frequently able to make up totally new words while giving a speech.

Was that because he was smart or couldn't remember the correct word?
He used to make up things to suit his purpose, like a politician.
 
Bob