[geeks] New Tech Schools: Digital Harbor in Baltimore

[wa2egp at att.net]

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon at widomaker.com>
>
> Sun, 15 Apr 2007 @ 16:34 +0000, wa2egp at att.net said:
> 
> > > There is some truth to the idea that you get what you paid for.  However,
> > > teachers are usually paid significantly above average wages in most places
> > > where I've looked it up, so I'm not sure that's really the problem.
> > 
> > That's total BS.  
> 
> I looked at average salaries and in most cases the teachers were above
> average.
> 
> It's certainly like that where I live.

Well that a problem with "average".  In my district about 80% is at top scale
so the average is skewed if you are talking about adding everybody's pay
and dividing by the number of people working.  Now if you are just averaging
the pay on each level, it comes out different.  Now if you are doing the first
adn you compare it to a job where there is a lot of turnover so most do not
get to the "top" (if there is one) then, of course, teachers get a higher
average pay.

> If you want to think that's BS, go ahead, you are free to do so... :)

Yes, and I will. :)
 
> > For the same education?  I don't think so.
> 
> I've never thought the teacher curriculum was very hard. It's pretty
> lightweight.
> 
> One of the big stinks locally not too long ago was the reduction in
> requirements for teachers, including the elimination of coursework in
> hard sciences. School board figures they don't need it.

That's funny.  In Jersey, they are now requiring a science teacher to
have a minimum of a minor in the science for "certification", preferably
a major.  That's why it is so hard to get science teachers.  With a 
degree in science, you can get a higher paying job outside of education.
 
> Also, there is more to education than college. I know welders who've
> had several times as much classroom work as any teacher. Society just
> doesn't view things like that, even if it is courses in advanced
> physics, as "education". Likewise any cop whose been around for awhile
> has had literally years of classroom education, and I don't just mean
> "crime" classes.

Ah, but can they do my job?  Or should I ask, do they want to do my job? :)

> So I suppose the real answer depends on what qualifies as "education"
> to you. 
> 
> > And don't look at the top scale.  Too easy to use that.
> 
> I'm talking about average salaries. Teachers are above average where
> I've seen information about it.

See above.

> But since you mentioned the top scale: if you look at the top pay in
> each job category, again, teachers do better than average, some some
> earning six figures.

Not in Jersey (although I haven't seen this year's figures)

> > > Just a note: my 6th grade teacher retired at $49K/year in the late 80s or
> > > early 90s. This was when a major or chief on the police force would only get
> > > about $35K/year, and the local average retirement pay was under $22K/year.
> > 
> > Factor in how much they get paid, how long they have to work to reach
> > pension age and how the pay scale goes.  (Teaching is not linear in many
> > cases.)
> 
> Locally teachers hit their top retirement rate faster than almost any
> other civil servant in the same pay range.

Now you say civil servant.  What about the other jobs in your comparison?
 
> > > Quantitative analysis is popular, but useless in most cases.
> > 
> > And the balance between quantitative and qualitative is hard to find,
> > especially agreement about the balance between different parties.
> > A good vocabulary is not a good indicator of the thinking behind
> > the words. :)
> 
> For example, listen to a politician.  He might be well spoken and win
> arguments, but how many times have you heard one actually say anything?

Clinton was an expert at that.
 
> Then you have people like Jesse Jackson, who is so smart, he is
> frequently able to make up totally new words while giving a speech.

Are you being sarcastic here?  He usually says what suits the moment,
like a politician.

Bob