[geeks] Re: [rescue] It's official, the U.S. is screwedfor4more years

[Michael Horton]

>That, IMHO, is wa whacked

not an unusal reaction.

checking the history books, it was these people who picked up the pieces
after the fall of the roman empire successfully.  most of us on this
list are culturally descendended from these folk.

> So ....  God loves his chosen people, but forbids them to defend
themselves against persecution?

it appears so.

actually, god does a good job of defending his people.  (if you read the
sources that i referenced, you will see this.
the account of polycarp's martyrdom is especially revealing.)

and it does not mean that they are not able to defend themslves against
attempted murder, robbery, assault, etc. under "normal" circumstances.
there are circumstances when "self-reservation" is not the supreme goal
of life.

>See, it's things like this that are one of the reasons I've never been
able to accept the basic ideas of Christianity.

it's things like this that are one of the reasons that many people do
exercise faith in the god of the bible and the christ of christianity.

jesus of nazareth: my kingdom is not of this earth.  if it was, my
followers would fight for me.
                 : if you want to be a leader, you must be a servant.

this seems to indicate that the follower of jesus of nazareth/jesus
christ is to have a different worldview/motivation than what is normally
seen in the world.



-----Original Message-----
From: geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Stracchino
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 3:37 PM
To: 'The Geeks List'
Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: [rescue] It's official, the U.S. is
screwedfor4more years


On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 03:17:47PM -0500, Michael Horton wrote:
> > circumstances when christians are prehibited from even self-defense.
>
> Hmm?  Cite?
>
> just as jesus of nazareth (jesus christ) did not offer a defense
> before pilate but said that his 'kingdom was not of this earth
> otherwise my followers would fight' for his release, christians are
> prohibitted from self-defense when persecuted.

That, IMHO, is wa whacked as Islam's idea that you go directly to
paradise if you die fighting the infidel, regardless of anything else
you may have done.


> it is a hebrew word that describes the affection that god has toward
> his covenant people. khesed/chesed rivals any word used in the new
> testament, that is, agape. based on the length of time covered by the
> old testament, there are many more examples of god's affections toward

> his covenant people.  this permits a fuller understanding of god's
> affection toward his covenant.
>
> khesed/chesed is translated by "stedfast love", "lovingkindness",
> "tenderkindness", "love" by some of the translations. being someone
> with a harsh childhood and adolescence, i enjoy and relate to
> "lovingkindness" because it shows the effect of god's affection toward

> me as well as the whole of his covenant people.


So ....  God loves his chosen people, but forbids them to defend
themselves against persecution?


See, it's things like this that are one of the reasons I've never been
able to accept the basic ideas of Christianity.  If God exists, and the
Bible is an accurate rendering of his acts, intentions and grand design,
then the old guy's got to be crazier than a fruitbat.



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