[geeks] Re: [rescue] It's official, the U.S. is screwedfor4 more years

[Michael Horton]

> circumstances when christians are prehibited from even self-defense.

Hmm?  Cite?

just as jesus of nazareth (jesus christ) did not offer a defense before
pilate but said that his 'kingdom was not of this earth otherwise my
followers would fight' for his release, christians are prohibitted from
self-defense when persecuted.

jesus of nazareth: if they persecute me, they will persecute you
peter: follow the example of jesus christ when you are persecuted for
your faith (first epistle, chapters 3 & 4)
the practice of the early church was the same: not to deny their faith,
that is, to deny that jesus is lord by affirming that caesar was lord
and to accept the persecution they experienced because their faith.
ignatius wrote a number of letters while be taken from palestine to
greece or rome for execution and his letters affirm this practice.
other early christian documents have similar ideas.  (polycarp, justin
martyr, et al.)
running away was permitted under, at least, some circumstances (the
early chapter of the book of acts shows this.) but self-defense never
was condoned.

So what _does_ 'kased' mean?

kased is probably better transliterated as "khesed" or "chesed".
that will give more google hits.
(my mistake in the transliteration/spelling.  i'm deaf and can't hear
all the letters!)
it is a hebrew word that describes the affection that god has toward his
covenant people.
khesed/chesed rivals any word used in the new testament, that is, agape.
based on the length of time covered by the old testament, there are many
more examples of god's affections toward his covenant people.  this
permits a fuller understanding of god's affection toward his covenant.

khesed/chesed is translated by "stedfast love", "lovingkindness",
"tenderkindness", "love" by some of the translations.
being someone with a harsh childhood and adolescence, i enjoy and relate
to "lovingkindness" because it shows the effect of god's affection
toward me as well as the whole of his covenant people.


-----Original Message-----
From: geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-bounces at sunhelp.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Stracchino
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:46 PM
To: 'The Geeks List'
Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: [rescue] It's official, the U.S. is screwedfor4
more years


On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 12:28:15PM -0500, Michael Horton wrote:
> the hebrew word translated "kill" in the 10 commandments should be
> translated "murder" for 21st century american audiences.

Yup.  Of course, try convincing the KJV literalists of that ....

> poisoning a well has the same *intent* as murder: premeditated act to
> kill.

And not just a few people, but possibly make an entire village
uninhabitable.  This was written in a *desert* -- water is LIFE. *NO
SHIT* thou shalt not suffer a well-poisoner to live.


> killing as a result of self-defense, as stated, should be
> self-evident. though, in the new testament, there are specific
> circumstances when christians are prehibited from even self-defense.

Hmm?  Cite?


> concerning the old testament, one of the most warm-hearted words in
> the bible is the hebrew word, kased. it is quite remarkable in the
> depth of compassion that is expressed. so much so, that an
> understanding of the word and its ramifications, one would be
> hard-pressed to come to the conclusion that the old testament was any
> less than the new testament.

So what _does_ 'kased' mean?


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