[geeks] CCW for Ohio!

[Mike Hebel]

On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 12:57 PM, Francisco Javier 
Mesa-Martinez wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Kurt Huhn wrote:
>>
>> Why, feeling paranoid also?
>
> Moi? LOL, these gun threads are most amusing sometimes.

So are yours.

> A few points I would like to make, and yes it is my own opinion (before
> people start writing about why I am wrong and blah blah blah).

Too late.

> 1) If you use a bad 80s movie as an argument, well you need to re think
> your position to begin with. And yeah putting quotes w/o any sort of
> context goes that way too.

Indeed.  Like using generalizations and straw-man attacks against 
others on this list?

> 2) If you wanna own a gun, fine, BUT you need to make sure you are 
> able to
> own and handle said gun. In order to do so, there must be some sort of
> certification, and if that implies that a record must be kept so be it.

Ahhh...but what if the list is not controlled by people who are willing 
to accept the fact
that you wish to own a gun?  Your cited example is England Mr. 
Francisco.
They first made registrations mandated, then collected all the guns 
from registered owners first.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/081902M.html

Yet their violent crime rate went up:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/19/15257.shtml

The US has had similar ideas:

http://will.mylanders.com/shot/politics/no_rights.php3

Yet this is one isolated example of why these laws are wrong:

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1111

> 3) If you see bad guys every where, then I assume that two things have
> happened: You ended up at the wrong part of town, or you forgot to take
> your meds.

I repeat again - look at this link:
http://will.mylanders.com/shot/politics/no_rights.php3

The GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WANT CITIZENS ARMED.
That being the case it is reasonable for citizens who wish to be armed 
for their
own protection to keep a wary eye out for black helicopters.

> 4) You have the right to use a gun if you feel that is gonna protect 
> you,
> fine. I also believe I have the right to protect myself from gun nuts 
> too.
> Why would I trust you with a gun, just because? It goes both ways.

*Sideways Straw Man Attack Detected...filtering!*

It may go both ways - I will agree with you on that. However even using 
the term
"gun nuts" implies an attitude of disrespect towards our opinions.

Oh yes...I am one of those "gun nuts" too.  I don't currently own.  I 
will though when I can again afford it.
I even intend to learn how to make my own guns  and produce them for my 
own use.

I also intend to create other weapons - for the defense of my family 
only.  I intend to become a
bladesmith at some point in my life.  Does this make me a "sword nut" 
Mr. Francisco?

I think not.  And I think that, thanks to your attitude, I now respect 
your opinion even less than you respect mine.

That said - "Hi Mr. Ashcroft!  I hope you're enjoying the discussion!"  
;-)

Mike Hebel