On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 04:20:37PM -0700, Rick Hamell wrote: > Oh, and on some the chasis-mounted ram bar on front. :0 Thats actually a "push bar" - among other things, most commonly used to help push stuck vehicles out of ruts, etc... (at least around where I come from). Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX