Handguns Was: RE: [geeks] Was: [rescue] damn you bill, now i'm a lowbrow

[Chris Byrne]

Quite simply the two finest pistols ever designed are the Hi-power and the
1911. Not coincidentally both are from the truly amazing mind of John Moses
Browning (Mostly anyway. THe high power had a brilliant belgian co-designer
but I can't remember his name at the moment). I include the CZ-75 in this
group because it IS a modified High-Power design. Of course browning also
designed the two finest machineguns (the m1919 and the m2), the finest LMG
(the BAR) snd one of the finest shotguns (the A5)

I believe that when properly executed (Materials properly selected, properly
manufactured, tuned etc...) the post-series 80 1911 and it's many
derivatives (Wilson combat, Kimber, Les Baer, Springfield, and ParaOrdnance
being my favs) are the finest automatic pistols in the world. They have a
natural balance and point that is impossible to beat, and if your hands are
the right size and shape they have the perfect fit and feel. All controls
can be operated without shifting your grip. Magazine changes are completely
natural. The bore axis is just above the web of your hand, basically the
perfect position to absorb recoil and control the weapon.

That being said, if your hands ARENT the right size and shape you are never
going to like a 1911. They bite, they bitch, they kick. They're also damned
big for a weapon with only 7 (8 if you're lucky, or up to 16 if you like the
ParaOrd's which I do) rounds in the magazine. They are generally heavy and
very difficult for most people to conceal.

And from the factory most 1911's are utter shite. They have major feed
issues, ejection problems, trigger creep, overtravel, staqcking, the list
goes on and on. Only by going to a premium manufacturer (such as those I
mentioned above and the many others) or starting with a solid base (colt or
springfield armory are your best bet) and a VERY good gunsmith do you get a
fine weapon.

See that's why I said properly executed. Nothing about G.I. 1911's was
worthwhile. The damned things had such poor fit, finsh, assembly, parts
match etc.. that it's amazing they shot at all.

Everythign I said above applies to the High-power as well. They just seem to
fit your hand (if you have the right size and shape) and point and balance
like a part of you. THat's what a weapon should be like. Plus for a weapon
first manufactured in IIRC 1938 they have a nice capacity of 13. A few
things. They bite even worse then onmodified 1911s do if they dont have a
beavertail. The safety mechanisms have an anooying tendency to fail on the
early models as do the firing pins. Early models WILL fail to feed a large
hollowpoint 100%. But the biggest problem being that until recently you
could only get Hi-powers and variants in barely adequate calibers that the
various euro national police and military forces use, plus 9mm

I personally think standard 9MM is not suitable for a full sized pistol.
They are either too fast (lightweight bullet, overpenetration,
fragmentation) or too slow (heavy bullett doesnt penetrate or expand). There
are some seriously nice 9+p+ rounds out there, but at that point you are
talking about massive overpenetration problems, and fragmentation  of the
bullet, plus the recoil and muzzle blast issues.

When you have a pistol the size of a high power then you should take
advantage of it and put in a cartridge that can use the room. Dont get me
wrong I think 9mm is great for the Kahr K-9 and other pistols of that size,
but in a pistol the size of a high power or even worse a Beretta M92-FS
(Great weapon, but damn is it bulky) you should have a cartridge that
matches.

Personally I like 10mm or .40S&W, and I find the new .357SIG very promising.
The biggest problem people have with 10's is recoil and blast, but then
again msot people were firing them out of 4" S&W's with lightweight
everything etc... With a nice long barel and slide that little extra weight
eats that muzzle flip right away. Of course I also have forearms bigger
around than most mens biceps, and wrists...

The .40S&w is a good compromise between mass and velocity, and I think it's
probably the best all around defensive cartridge for an auto pistol today.
The .45 is great when you choose your loads properly, but the fact is you
give up a lot of magazine capacity to go .45 or you add a lot of bulk, and a
properly chosen .40 combo can be as or more effective a manstopper.


just my opinion, i could be wrong

Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf
> Of William Barnett-Lewis
> Sent: 04 April 2002 06:07
> To: geeks at sunhelp.org
> Subject: RE: Handguns Was: RE: [geeks] Was: [rescue] damn you bill, now
> i'm a lowbrow
>
>
> Sticking my neck way out here... ;'p
>
> There's some seriously true material here. It's why I still prefer
> either a true blowback (for small calibers) or a Browning derived
> weapon. The Hipower is still the finest 9mm in the world followed
> closesly by the CZ-75. (IMHO and all that jazz).
>
> Though I will admit to a serious weakness for the SIG in .375 Sig
> Magnum, especially since I heard recently (No URL to prove it, damn...)
> that that's what the current sky marshalls are packing.
>
> In the end, a PPK or a Hipower are the two best made. Both have thier
> weaknesses, but I would argue that thier strengths outwiegh them.
>
> (Oh, I learned shooting a handgun with the 1911 from the US Army. I
> still consider it over rated...  Take that Troll as you will... ;)