How to find qualified folks (was Re: Re[2]: [rescue] Re: [geeks] THIS. MAKES. ME. SICK.)

[Earl Baugh]

> > So the $64K question.  Why should this be all that hard to do?  And what
> > recommendations could folks give me on what I could do to find more 
> qualified
> > candidates?  (I'm not interested in "contracting" the position, nor
> > "consultants". I want someone who wants to become part of the 
> organization....)
> >
>
>My guess would be the fun factor and the resume geewizzardry is missing in the
>job description.

Is that really what folks are looking for?  I guess the fact that our 
solution can deploy
on a "farm" of machines would add to that fact.  To me, the fact that we'll 
be dealing with integrating
machines into other "interesting" networks (but not getting stuck with the 
long term support)
would make it attractive (fun, but not the "day-to-day" grind part of the 
equation).
However, I thought, given that I am looking for "more experienced" folks 
that I'd be able
to find some folks with admin experience that these factors would be 
important to now.
So, geeks, what is this the first thing you look for??  I know that for me, 
"fun factor" and
"gee-wizzardry" aren't things I expect a job to "do" for me, but rather 
things I can make happen.
Am I unique??

>I came from a corporate networking background and entered the Internet world
>(too late from the stock options point of view), so I know how to conduct
>myself in the biz world. Many people don't want that gig. They want
>t-shirts, shorts, sneakers, free soda, pizza parties, secure parking
>for their Vespa scooters and no time accounting/flex hours.

Guess the .com crunch hasn't woken up all the folks yet.   I'd have figured 
by now
that folks would be starting to realize that there isn't any thing as a 
free lunch, at least
in the long term.   (We've got free soda, but honestly, I don't want folks 
who that's
the only criteria for looking for a job).  Secure parking is a new one to 
me.  I don't
think there is any place in Atlanta where I would work where this would be 
an issue.
Flex time is something we do to.  I don't know of any IT shops that don't 
do that to
some degree (esp in any metro area where there is any form of traffic).   The
"no-time-accounting" seems a foolish expectation.   Are folks coming out of
college so out of touch with reality because of the .com situation?  Did no one
but me see that this wouldn't go on forever??  (I had hoped it would, but 
didn't
realistically expect it to....though I'd have killed to know "when" it 
would  go south...)

>Many qualifieds are also looking for stuff that jumps out on their resume, 
>since
>they are young and green. With all the attention the Internet is getting many
>think that claiming to have adminned the NSI root DNS servers will convince an
>employer that they are ready for anything (sorry, not). Anything Internet +
>high availability + new tech + cool gets the candidates. Working with/behind a
>salesman (salesweasel) has a bad reputation.

Really?  The folks I know from PWC, Anderson, etc, make oodles of $$, and
haven't ever had trouble finding a job when they get tired of doing all 
that traveling.
I also know enough (having my own PERSONAL class C IP address [not from
any stinking ISP] ) to filter out folks who think that buzz words and 
managing a
NSI root DNS server isn't all that mentally stressing of a task.

And, hey, I'm not looking for "young and green".  I'm looking for "old and 
solid" 8-).

>You might check out SAGE (System Administrators Guild) of Usenet.

I'm looking thru that.  Thanks.

>Perhaps an older worker would be best. More stable, more business
>accumen, long term view.

Of course. That's actually what I'm looking for.


>P.S., it would be the $75,000 / $85,000 question (unless Atlanta is in a
>techno-depression).

It's more than a $64K question (and actually higher than your numbers,
if I find the right person).


Other comments:



>It either needs to be fun or high paying (better yet, both).  Otherwise, 
>why did
>we invest all that time in education when we could have saved money and
>gotten $32k/yr at nearby parsel delivery service which not that long ago was
>hiring at something like $16/hr.

Having just paid off student loans (hurrah!) I can agree on the time and
money cost.   When we originally put out a more detailed job description,
all I got was "green-just-out-of-school" folks who thought our description
looked "fun" and "interesting".   Not a one even "semi" senior admin.  zip.
So, I tried a more "staid" approach, and got even less hits.

>I gotta say, low time accountability is nice.  I work 40 hours, just sign
>my name on a time sheet.  Work more or less, I write that down, then sign
>name.  Never worked anyplace much stricter than that.

The only place I've seen more than this is "gov't contracting" (and yes,
I worked in a research group doing with these types of "accounting"...
sucked, but the job was interesting to balance it).

Ken is close I think in his paraphrase:

         "High-pay, great people, interesting work - pick two"

but I'd add "good management"  (which doesn't equivalence to "great 
people"....know lots of
good folks who couldn't run a company to save their lives...).    But you 
still get to only pick
two (and just try to maximize the others to where they are merely "good" or 
"not boring".)

After a year here, I think I've actually might have 3, with the 4th just 
being a matter of
interpretation.   I think any work can be interesting, it just depends on 
how you approach it.

Earl